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12/20/2005

Comments

Captain Kidd

"If there are 'rules,' they are only those that ought not to be violated if the writer wants his work to be included in this category."

With due respect to your overall antipathy for MA creative writing programs, I don't think if a story bends generic or stylistic boundaries ("rules"), then the story of necessity eradicates its bid for inclusion in the transgressed category. Tristram Shandy, for example, seriously interrogates his contemporary novelistic conventions of micro-precise hyperrealism, authorial and didactic policing, the purpose of "suspense" or delayed narrative disclosure, slapstick and grotesquerie, and the dyad of sentimentalism and irony. See Thomas Keymer Laurence Sterne and the Moderns for full argument. But Tristram Shandy is still a novel. The most original novels and stories plug into the accumulated rules and traditions (never monolithic in nature) of storytelling, and then offer their own unique spin.

I only mention this b/c your most recent post also seems to neglect the notion that a work of fiction can be "postmodern" and ingenuous or unguarded as well, without being sentimental bullshit.

Dan Green

I don't have antipathy for M.A. creative writing programs. I possess an MA in creative writing.

I did not say "if a story bends generic or stylistic boundaries ("rules"), then the story of necessity eradicates its bid for inclusion in the transgressed category." I said just the opposite.

Captain Kidd

Sorry for confusions. I mean to address your substantive point.

Your sentence:
"If there are 'rules,' they are only those that ought not to be violated if the writer wants his work to be included in this category."

My sentence:
"...if a story bends generic or stylistic boundaries ("rules"), then the story of necessity eradicates its bid for inclusion in the transgressed category."

These sentences seem roughly synonomous. You might have misunderstood "transgressed category" to mean a new category of fiction that suberts or supplants a genre or style. But I meant the category (the genre or style) that was transgressed. If you concede to this latter meaning, you contradict yourself. You say that certain conventions of genre fiction are inviolable (if the writer wants the work to be positioned in terms of those conventions) on the one hand. On the other hand, you say the exact opposite, that certain conventions can be played with without transcending those conventions.

You don't have to answer this post. Time constraints and all. But I felt the need to clarify my point so we're not so evasive we're talking past each other.

PS: I guess I mean your antipathy for stict "rule" construction in MA creative writing programs. At any rate, my main argument is not affected by this qualifaction.

Dan Green

"You say that certain conventions of genre fiction are inviolable (if the writer wants the work to be positioned in terms of those conventions)"

But I don't say this. I say that fiction is such an elastic "form" that any conventions--especially the kind of conventions taught in creative writing classes--that might be identified as constituent of the form are impossibly constrictive. The short story isn't a pre-existing form except in the historical sense; its possibilities continue to evolve. This is what makes the positing of "rules" absurd.

Captain Kidd

You have a good point. But I wouldn't say the search for rules is then quixotic, just relative and evolving. You're calling for a nuanced, informed approach to literary form. It's hard to argue with this. I would argue, though, shooting fish in a barrel--not to say this is the worst instance of the stocking-horse syndrome; for "universalist" approaches to form and style is rampant all over the place and should be defended against--constitutes much of our contemporary blog form. Thanks for the response; I've been thinking about genre and form on a very general level a lot lately and this discussion has helped.

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